Gill Lee
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Hi Steven,
You do make me laugh – and look up new words. I now know what a Wisden is and checked my understanding of epee last time!
I can see this Rear Admiral thing running through the entire novel now and really working as a symbol for Lester’s view of himself – grandiose and self-ridiculing at the same time!
A question of not having the context maybe, but couldn’t get this bit ‘She snorted. ‘Stupid Serafina, thought you shredded that.’’ Is there a ‘you missing as in – you thought you’d shredded that? Or is it the comma?
The dandruff thing came out of the blue and was positively icky – not the view I’d previously had of Serafina. So there are layers here I hadn’t previously understood.
Loved your use of ‘press-ganged’ as a verb, and really enjoy your use of dialogue and Lester’s internal monologue to open up a humorous gap.
In this phrase: ‘as if divided by glass, a desk, and the truth of his claim.’ Loved the truth bit, but I couldn’t understand the other two – again, maybe just not having the whole context (or me being dense).
And then his name in that last sentence – so unexpected in a man of his traditional leanings – just when I think I’ve got a handle on Lester and Serafina you surprise me. Great stuff!
Thanks, Katie,
Yes the structure is so much to think about and I keep changing my mind about the last chapters and the ending – in response to what people have said here. There is a confrontation between Mike and Harry which ends in Mike’s murder. But then as you guys have pointed out there needs to be a final reckoning between Laura and Harry and I’ve slightly wimped that out so far. So maybe I’ll use next week (not clear what form next week takes) to get some feedback . I’m also worried about the structure of the first part – prologue of 2 pages of Mike, then Laura in 1983. Then a shift to Laura in 1993. I can see it’s two shifts but think the story requires it.
The more I get into it, the more it’s Laura’s story. Mike has his story and his change and I’m hoping that right up until his final chapter I can keep the reader guessing whether he may even still be alive. Was he murdered? By whom (there are two main suspects, Harry and one of the activists)…..
But the structure is the key and worries me…..
Wow, Katie! Makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up! You’ve got this!
Hi Debi,
Such helpful and thought provoking comments, many of which I’ll store and think back on… Very helpful indeed.
First thoughts here and would love to know what you think…
So is Mike a sympathetic character? I think he’s morally ambivalent. Is that a problem?
An earlier draft had him more likeable, and the story was more open to interpretation as a love story with police corruption coming between two lovers
But I think as time has gone on, I’ve got it closer to what I originally wanted, which is Laura’s story, with two lying men, and her facing up to those lies, and eventually overcoming them. But while readers should want Harry to meet a terrible end (see below) they mainly be happy that as Mike dies, he is thinking of Laura…
I want Mike to be a victim, too, not an individually bad person (as Harry is) , though I think he’s quite weak in many ways. And I don’t want readers cheering as he dies (though Kat isn’t so sorry…) And I do think he loves Laura, in so far as he is able. He says at one point that you can love two people at once…And he wants to be a better father to his new child than he was with his existing children (?!)
I’ve also given him honourable motives for joining the cops ( a mother who was a victim of domestic abuse), and a step father who bullied him. And he does behave well when Laura divulges her childhood abuse to him.
Later in this chapter, when he meets Harry’s new wife, he is appalled to realise she has a young daughter…
So generally, I think he’s morally ambivalent and maybe the extract needs some massaging.
But
He is a man of his time, and used to being around other macho men (including when he’s under cover!) and in this scene, his rivalry with Harry comes to the fore. Harry has been a kind of father figure to him and yet has utterly betrayed and manipulated him. Mike’s competitive, too. He makes his living by lying and manipulating – takes pride in his ability to do it well- and finds another man has done it to him. His macho side comes to the fore, and at such a revealing moment! Also – by this stage in his story, he’s is in a terrible state mentally, and doesn’t know what is what – everything he thought has been twisted once, twice, three times over. Harry has put his life in danger too – not just manipulated him.
I think I’ve edited out a tiny softening from the original where it was clearer that he isn’t repelled by Laura, but by what he has done to her, his skin touching hers, rather than the other way around. So there should be more to that than I’ve given here, but I’m not sure how much more… Will reflect…
On time
Yes, I have complicated time, haven’t I? I wanted to end the previous Mike chapter on a cliffhanger, where the reader knows something terrible has been understood by him, but not that Harry is her father. (Partly because there are a chunk of Laura chapters to come in between).
But maybe I could start this chapter immediately picking up from where the previous one left off, with them in bed together, and work forward to him sitting in the car on the way to Laura’s father’s place with his plan in place. It would mean a cut/jump quite near the start of the chapter but maybe that would work better…
The ending.
I don’t know whether we’ll get space to get thoughts on it next week, so will raise it here anyway, I’m now thinking that Laura has to be complicit in her father’s murder. She’s convinced of his guilt, but doesn’t believe she will get justice (the file on Thatcher will allow Harry to protect himself), so hands his address to a character, Eric, with even more reason to hate Harry than poor Mike, and Eric burns down Harry’s house with Harry inside. Kat wants to stop that (for Eric’s sake, not Harry’s), but Laura won’t let her. I may even have Laura watch as it burns.
Can Laura get this far from what we’ve seen so far?
Would this fulfill her character arc?
After reading comments and your replies
Wow so interested in this thing about latinate/ Germanic words and I think you’re definitely made the correct choices here. I was thinking Ida was giving off nun – ish vibes and now I know why. You clever woman, Katie!
I think the extract does what you want it to do and loved the imagery of the ivy, and the internal images Mary carries in her head which affect all her choices about life. You show this very powerfully.
You succeed completely in getting us to see Ida’s seductive power. Her ability to tune in to Mary’s concerns would make her so powerful and completely wins Mary to the cult. I completely believe she would join and stay. And I love the way you’ve used ‘The manor could crumble, land in dust at her feet, and she would not notice.’ to show that power, though I did wonder if there was a beat you could use just before this so the link is really clear….?
I think maybe focusing on PD has affected verb tense somehow? ‘She just stood there, didn’t she? Let the stinging air beat her back.’ Pretty sure there should be a ‘had’ in there somewhere and whether joining the two sentences might add some power? And wouldn’t it be ‘Listened’ instead of ‘Listen’? Await the oracle that is Debi….
I loved ‘hooking a cool finger under Mary’s chin.’
And that ending, love it. The pseudo – philosophy that when you are young and listening to an older person has such power!
Can’t wait to read the whole thing!
oooh, now you’ve really got the old synapses going. Isn’t there an essential difference between lies told to be kind to the other person ‘No, your bum doesn’t look big in your new dress,’ and those which deny someone the right to make decisions which are important to them. For example lies which have women living for years in a relationship they would otherwise end…. and not just because the guy is a spycop! But you’re right, novels open those big discussions for us, don’t they!
Hi Alison,
This is a beautiful scene, and I loved the way you took us from that great description of nature – at peace with itself after all its problems – to the two boys together, laughing. A journey to echo the whole story!
Your description of sunlight and shadows in that first sentence is just lovely, and again, echos the mood of the book beautifully so works well as an introduction to what I imagine is the end or close to it.
Wondered if you could bring this sentence ‘He didn’t have to fear shadows anymore.’ even closer. Fragment it maybe? No shadows to fear now? Though I can see the value of that ‘any longer, too….. then we get kicked away a bit by the next sentence starting ‘Noah’ and I wondered why you’d used his name there?
‘If he could wrap his arms around a bundle of gas, he would have.’ made me stumble. Couldn’t you just put ‘If he could wrap his arms around a bundle of gas, he would.’? I suppose the formally correct is ‘If he could have wrapped his arms around a bundle of gas he would have done so’ but it sounds so long winded and adult… But the action is in the past…. Cheat and start with ‘He wanted…’?? Interested to see what Debi suggests.
Love the use of colours and the laughter – will really be understood by child readers too.
Wishing I knew a kid the right age to read this to!
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This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by
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This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by
Thanks Lucia,
Will take a look at this sentence.
Getting the balance on Mike has been hard. In what will now be the ‘prologue’ he does seem to love her and she certainly believes he does. Sometimes he comes close to acknowledging it in his thoughts, and he certainly likes his life with her better than his home life which is much more traditionally middle class. But I’m hoping that the reader will notice that his chapters are filled with action and contain very little about her, though he certainly enjoys her body and the way she looks up to him. In the end, hers is the face he sees. I’m hoping he’s a point of discussion!
Completely got ‘split hill’ now. Thanks!
oops sorry – posted wrong place.
No. Not romance. ooo pink salt?
My version does. Technologically illiterate here, but computer broke and new version of word reads to me – throaty American or light English woman. Expect there are other choices too. Someone else here will know….
Glad your back!
Love it! yup. I’d be wondering how we were expected to check, too! This is a great scene, Richard. I loved your use of the technical stuff to deliberately confound the reader – certainly worked for me.
Agree with Kate’s suggestions 1 and 2 and wonder if you could go even briefer with the second piece:
Everyone stared.
No-one asked.
Hi Julie,
Loved the tension in the scene.
As Chithrupa has said, your use of fragments to create that ‘coming to’ moment in the morning is fab. Love the fact that you’ve used them for setting.
I’m finding a few of our extracts hard to get into – they’re not meant to be read this way! – but also I think I’m just slow. So forgive me if I suggest or ask about things which should be obvious….
‘That split hill’ – I was imagining the road sign which shows two little hills (don’t have a clue what it signifies so must redo my highway code!) but can’t think why it would become a speck. I’m probably being dense here…
Really liked the suspense you created here using rhythm and repetition She was gone. She was in the kitchen, with him.
And the ‘quivered’ and ‘dragging’ – lovely!
Wasn’t sure about Why did you have to confront him? We were just going to slip out. Are those Rachel’s thoughts? If so couldn’t you just use Why was Lee confronting him? Why couldn’t they just slip out? There’s part of a post by Emma somewhere about avoiding italics by using PD…
‘A heat of panic hit her stomach’ doesn’t quite work for me…
‘She’d not had a full view, but it was there, in his eyes, a fight to regain control.’ Again, I love the rhythm of the phrases you’ve used.
Thanks, Chithrupa will have a think. You’re correct about time being complicated in this extract!
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